Posts by Ultimate Axiom

37

What's the greatest movie no-one's ever heard of?

by rory-ks in

you know, that film you really love, but when you mention it everyone's, like, "eh?".

i'll get the ball rolling.

for me: ulee's gold..

Ultimate Axiom

A movie no one's ever heard of? If a movie has been made someone has to have heard of it, if only the people that made it.

36

An Anti-Witnessing Campaign, Please Join Me!

by What Now? in

in the past few weeks, the shunning issue has become a very personal one for me, and i have begun to realize that it is not just enough for me and my family to fade out.

after some recent events, i am motivated to start some anti-watchtower activism of my own.. i, like many others, have hoped that there would be a scandal of epic proportions within the organization, something that would wake others up and trigger a mass exodus.. while i am still hopeful that this may happen, it seems that the organization is too good at damage control, and heightening the paranoia surrounding apostates.. but what if the ex-witness community tried a different approach?.

what if, to borrow a hockey term, a sort of shut out situation was created?.

Ultimate Axiom

Imagine the effect it will have if Witnesses arrived at their territory only to find that every house is listed as a “Do Not Call”?

I think the average Witness would be delighted if this were the case - and even more so if it applied to their entire territory.

I tend to agree with steve2 here, I don’t think the average person is that pestered with JWs calling at their door that they would give a campaign like this a second thought. Cold telephone calls are a much hotter topic and while they are extremely irritating most people still couldn’t be bothered to do anything to reduce them.

31

Is there a difference between a "wrong expectation" and a "false prophecy"?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

as many of you posters know by now that my mom has been a devout jw for 40 years and just cannot accept the fact that i am no longer a jw and feel that i am being deceived by apostates and will be destroyed at armaggeddon.

well the other day we had another knock down debate about "false prophecies" and the wts.

my mom insist that the wts are not false prophets but merely had many "wrong expectations" the same as other bible writers and disciples of christ.

Ultimate Axiom

As a matter of fact, the WTBTS have inadvertently admitted that they are false prophets. In the Awake! October 8, 1968, page 23, they said, “True, there have been those in times past who predicted an “end to the world,” even announcing a specific date [e.g. Russell in Zion’s Watchtower]. Yet, nothing happened. The “end” did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying.”

31

Is there a difference between a "wrong expectation" and a "false prophecy"?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

as many of you posters know by now that my mom has been a devout jw for 40 years and just cannot accept the fact that i am no longer a jw and feel that i am being deceived by apostates and will be destroyed at armaggeddon.

well the other day we had another knock down debate about "false prophecies" and the wts.

my mom insist that the wts are not false prophets but merely had many "wrong expectations" the same as other bible writers and disciples of christ.

Ultimate Axiom

Oubliette has hit the nail squarely on the head – I would just like to add;

Pure Chance – when another religion predicts something that does come true.
True Prophecy – when the WTBTS predicts something that does come true.

Not that there is a single example of the latter, but it is why you will find the Watchtower making statements such as this;

"Today, Jehovah’s Witnesses point to the sign given by Jesus and look back upon 1914 as the year when his invisible presence in Kingdom power became a reality. But how could they have had advance knowledge of such a momentous event? Not because of extraordinary human wisdom. No, but because they have prayerfully studied the Scriptures, heeded God’s prophetic word and paid more than usual attention to what God’s Son foretold." (The Watchtower, April 1, 1984, page 16).

Of course this is bullshit because prior to 1914 they believed Christ’s invisible presence started in 1874, but that’s another subject altogether.

134

Your Most DREADED Dub Word

by GetBusyLiving in

i wanna hear the word that made you either physically nauseous or burst out in uncontrolable laughter.

please demonstrate it in a sentence as well.

mine was 'enthused' (my fingers were shaking as i typed).

Ultimate Axiom

Not a word, but a short sentence, often asked at the close a meeting – "What have you learned today?"

"Nothing, it's been a repetition of the same boring old stuff" was the only answer I could ever come up with. Of course, only Jehovah knew I'd given that answer, as only he could read my mind.

37

How often do you see the Witnesses out on the ministry?

by rory-ks in

i only ask because i hardly ever see them out on the ministry.

it is a very rare sighting to spot them actively engaged in the house to house ministry.

or out on the street work, in the marketplace, etc.. the other reason i ask is because they are constantly pictured as being on the preaching work.

Ultimate Axiom

Wow!!!! They all must be in my neihbourhood.

Mine too Quarterback. I live in a small town about equidistant between two large ones, and they cover my estate two or three times a year. Mind you I've only noticed this since I retired, as most times it's during the week when most peple are at work.

18

two overlapping generations of anointed blah blah blah question

by SnailsPace2 in

jw
friends

i read the watchtower article on this "new light.

" has any information on how "this generation" turned into two overlapping generations of only anointed people been printed?

the word "evidence" was thrown around a lot in the article, but none was provided unless something has been printed since then and i have missed it.

Ultimate Axiom

SnailsPace2, the first change to the Generation doctrine was in 1995 when the literal generation was changed to, well, this…

“Rather than providing a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics. … Does our more precise viewpoint on ‘this generation’ mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all.” (Watchtower, November 1, 1995, pages 17 and 20).

In 2008, the 1995 definition was modified, and the generation no longer referred to contemporary people in general, but to the remnant of the anointed class. And with increasing numbers of new persons partaking of the memorial emblems each year, this would still allow for the ‘generation’ of anointed persons to extend practically indefinitely, and appeared to remove any link to the actual generation of 1914. This problem did not go unnoticed in Brooklyn, so in 2010 the interpretation was modified once more, enter the overlapping generation.

“How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation” (Watchtower, April 15, 2010).

To claim that this is what Jesus ‘evidently’ meant is absurd, but the link to 1914 was re-established. This latest definition means that as long as the life of the very oldest anointed person who was alive in 1914 (even as a baby) overlaps with the very youngest member of the anointed class today, then the ‘generation’ that Jesus ‘evidently meant’ could still exist. So, for example, if there is a member of the anointed class anywhere in the world today who was born in the summer of 1914 and reaches 100 years of age, and at the 2014 memorial somebody only 30 years old partakes of the emblems, there exists an overlapping generation fitting this new definition. This extends the ‘generation’ to 2084 if that 30 year old lives to be a hundred and continues taking the emblems.

However, so as not to give the impression that the ‘end’ could be seventy odd years away in 2014 they said,

“We understand that in mentioning “this generation,” Jesus was referring to two groups of anointed Christians. The ﬁrst group was on hand in 1914, and they readily discerned the sign of Christ’s presence in that year. … The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the ﬁrst group. … Today, those in this second group are themselves advancing in years. Yet, Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 give us conﬁdence that at least some of “this generation will by no means pass away” before seeing the start of the great tribulation.” (Watchtower, January 15, 2014, page 31).

The striking similarity in the language used here regarding the ‘second group’, to that used in the Watchtowers from the 1950s until the early 1990s regarding the original ‘generation’ is glaring.

Of course there is no scriptural evidence for all of this, there is only Watchtower evidence, that is, material that is printed in Watchtowers. And the reasons are obvious, the literal 1914 generation are all dead.

As an aside, the other day, my daughter and I were talking about a 95 year old relative, who was still going strong, and she made the facetious comment (with a smile) that this relative was one of the generation that would not pass away. No I said, it was that relative’s long dead parents that were not supposed to pass away. It just put the whole nonsense in perspective.

50

How many in the cong visited you when you started fading

by joe134cd in

i'm just curious speaking from a person who has stopped going to meetings.

i have heard reports from inactive ones (or from ones who the elders suspect of going to the dark side) of having so many visits from elders (cong members) that it got to the point of harassment.

surprisingly i have to say from personal experience and from numerous others that i have spoken to that the exact opposite has been the case.

Ultimate Axiom

I had loads of visits - several elders (including the one that studied with me and was my best man at my wedding) a CO and a DO, plus a number of the brothers I had pioneered with, and a letter from a sister who regarded me as an adopted son as I came in the 'Truth' as a young single brother with no other family, except a sister who lived miles away. And as I moved twice in five years after I left, I also had visits from an elder from each of the congregations whose area I had moved into. I found it very tedious, but I have to say I do believe the motives of all of them were genuine, but this was back in the late 1970s and early 1980s and things were very different back then, especially in the UK.

24

is there any biblical event that has a universally accepted date on which it occurred?

by jeremiah18:5-10 in

i'm intrigued by the whole "bible chronology" topic, but have never really dug into it because to put any of it together you need a historically reliable starting point.

this wasn't a problem as a practicing jw because you just assumed their dates were right.

i would like for someone to give me one event described in the bible that is universally established and accepted historically that i can use as a reliable starting point.

Ultimate Axiom

It could be worse Phizzy, Rutherford used to refer to it as “present-truth chronology” and said, “It is … in accordance with the soundest laws known to science - that we affirm that, Scripturally, scientifically, and historically, present-truth chronology is correct beyond a doubt.” (Watchtower, June 15, 1922, page 187). Now that really would be annoying if it wasn’t so funny.

7

Watchtower Society copyright activity

by Ultimate Axiom in

i have heard that the watchtower society occasionally takes action under copyright law to either close down a website, or get it to remove the offending material.. some websites (like jwfacts.com, quotes-watchtower.co.uk, and even in some threads here) include a host of images taken from watchtower publications that depict (among other things) armageddon.

are these websites infringing watchtower society copyright by displaying their images?.

if yes, has the watchtower society attempted to have these sites either closed down or the images removed?.

Ultimate Axiom

notsurewheretogo – this was this case I had in mind – the letter I believe was to the BOE regarding how to deal with child molesters.

Londo111 – that’s an interesting item on wkipedia, but it makes me wonder why the Society took no action (as far as I know) to prevent the publishers of Ray Franz’s books from reproducing their internal letters in full, but did against JWsurvey.org.

Bangalore – thanks for that link – I clearly should have done a search on this website before starting this thread, that one just about covers it all.